Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Come into the Garden


17 comments:

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    1. 'So, I don't think she[Elizabeth Warren]'s gonna get in unless Hillary doesn't run,' he predicted, coming back to the original topic. And if that happens, 'I know you guys are going to do everything you can to make sure she gets in whether she likes it our not,' he said, eliciting laughter and clapping from audience members.

      "If nominated, I shall run to Mexico. If elected, I shall fight extradition."
      --Morris Udall (1983)

      --Alan

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  2. Re killing children, the children of Gaza have long been chronically malnourished due to the Israeli blockade and seizure of Gazan residents' earnings. I see no reason why the Gazans should react differently than the people of the Warsaw Ghetto.

    Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part III, 1592:

    CLIFFORD: My gracious liege, this too much lenity
    And harmful pity must be laid aside.
    To whom do lions cast their gentle looks?
    Not to the beast that would usurp their den.
    Whose hand is that the forest bear doth lick?
    Not his that spoils her young before her face.
    Who 'scapes the lurking serpent's mortal sting?
    Not he that sets his foot upon her back.
    The smallest worm will turn being trodden on,
    And doves will peck in safeguard of their brood.


    Nihil novi sub sole....

    Those who would rather have victory than peace will have neither, I think.


    --Alan

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    1. If I understand correctly, the UN is beginning to use the terms Israel and war crimes in the same breath. Now if we could only persuade John Q Public here in the US to see it that way.

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  3. I'm not sure when the Dems abandoned Israel, but when I grew up, politically Israel's support was *our* issue. Somewhere along the line, the Republicans took it up and we, for the most part, have given it up.

    For me, personally, most of it come from a TV show I saw in my early teens. NBC or someone was doing a "white paper" kind of thing on the Palestinian refugee camps. The interviewer asked a Palestinian man *why* they were insisting on staying in the camps. Why didn't they accept offers of homes/jobs from some of the other Arab states who were offering? The answer sort of burned itself into my heart/soul/mind: he didn't want his children to grow up healthy and happy, he *wanted* them to grow up deprived and hungry and HATING JEWS.

    Not much in my sixty years since is at odds with that man's desire/wish/hope/plan. I've seldom ever seen a Palestinian admit that they left Israel because their leaders *asked* them to leave so they'd have a clean battlefield to destroy all the Jews the UN had deposited on that bit of soil.

    The intent of Israel now vis a vis Palestine is VERY different from what the German/Poles desired and accomplished in Warsaw.

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    1. The intent of Israel is to eradicate all Palestinians from the face of the earth. Why is that not evil but "The intent of Palestine is to eradicate all Jews from the face of the earth" is evil? So, maybe they are both wrong and stupid, but Israel has the military capability and political choke hold on US public opinion to accomplish the goal, while the Palestinians have relatively primitive weaponry and absolutely no popular support in the US and precious little in the rest of the world. When every time there is a conflict the casualty figures are something like two or three hundred Palestinian (civilian) deaths for every one Israeli (soldier( death, and when the Israelis shell and bomb towns and refugee camps and anywhere else Palestinian civilians might be, yeah, it's pretty hard for me personally to give my sympathy to Israel. Genocide is genocide, whether it is committed by Nazis or Serbs or Israelis.

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  4. The UN now says that children were *targeted* by Israeli missiles and gunfire. Why the children?

    War crimes is war crimes.

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    1. listener, I'm not finding that allegation. Can you help me?

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    2. I can't find the interview I'm looking for, but this report will do to be going on with.

      http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/death-toll-climbs-pressure-builds-mideast-cease-fire/

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    3. Can't find the interview with the UN officer. Maybe one of you fully sighted folks will be able to fine it. I think she was from UNICEF.

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    4. — The U.N.'s high commissioner for human rights said Israel's targeting of civilian installations could amount to war crimes.

      "The disregard for international humanitarian law and for the right to life was shockingly evident for all to see in the apparent targeting on 16 July of seven children playing on a Gaza beach," Navi Pillay said. "Credible reports gathered by my office in Gaza indicate that the children were hit first by an Israeli airstrike, and then by naval shelling. All seven were hit. Four of them — aged between 9 and 11, from the same Bakr family — were killed. These children were clearly civilians taking no part in hostilities."

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/23/334326167/gaza-conflict-day-16-heres-what-you-need-to-know

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    5. I did find this: Israel may have committed war crimes by killing civilians and shelling houses and hospitals during its two-week-old offensive in the Gaza Strip, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said today.

      Is that what you meant?

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  5. Beautiful photo!

    ___

    "Killing children is the surest way of escalating violence into the next generation."

    Listener, I couldn't agree more. Furthermore, deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure i.e. residential areas, schools, churches and mosques, water works and sewage treatment plants is flat out evil, especially when you have artillery and bombers (and a highly effective missile defence system) while your opponent only has missiles is also, shall we say, unsporting!

    This makes me very angry, as it always does when Israel attacks Palestine since it's very much like using an Oozy to kill a mosquito. Got in an argument with Dad tonight about it. The conditioning is just appalling. The word "terrorist" is mentioned and all decency, all conventions and rules and laws of war go out the window and the only imperative is to get the terrorists, no matter how many civilians suffer and die in the process. Indeed, the civilians are themselves to blame for being in a position to be used as human shields by the terrorists. After all, the Israelis always give notice of the raids. It's nobody's concern if there are no safe places for the civilians to take refuge. Dad informed me that as long as Hamas is there, it is not only excusable but necessary to bomb schools and churches/mosques. Utterly sickening!

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  6. My heart is with you, Cat. ♥ I know it's not easy to live with people who don't get it. Courage, dear Deaniac!

    Have them watch this movie:
    http://www.amazon.com/Held-Hostage-Jerry-Levin-Story/dp/B000SVNLJS

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  7. Still looking (albeit not very hard) for a bumper sticker that reads:

    BAD WARMONGER! NO VOTE!

    --Alan

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