Howard Dean on Politically Direct (Part 2)

You can find Part 1 of the interview here.

Bender: Governor, you talked before about how Newt Gingrich had laid out a strategy and, as a tactician, he was very effective. We saw that Karl Rove, who is a tactician if nothing else--maybe no ethics, maybe no conscience--but has laid out a strategy again to the RNC. The same exact strategy from four years ago: they're going to run on 9/11. And, I believe at the time, your comment was, here's Karl Rove who breached our national security for partisan gain.

Dean: Right.

Bender: How do we get people to understand that these people continue to invoke 9/11 on national security and have yet done nothing to make us safer?

Dean: Well, this is actually something that I'm learning the hard way. You know, I rail against injustice and lies and stuff like that, and there's no more dishonest person in the government than Karl Rove, and that's saying something in this government. But the truth is, in some ways we can't respond to it. We have been attacking them because we get so indignant when they lie through their teeth. The truth is, we have to say what our values are. The reason people like this get reelected is because we don't provide an alternative. We have to have a *real* alternative, and we can foam at the mouth as much as we want to about how dishonest and incompetent they are--and they are--but we *absolutely* have to say what we would do differently. We have to tell people what *our* values are. Not just honesty, but balancing the budget--we have to be the party of "our brother's keeper". They're not, they're the party of selfishness, and we have to contrast that we're the party where we all hang together as Americans.

Bender: Governor, is there a Democratic "Contract with America" in the offing?

Dean: Yes.

Bender: When will we see that?

Dean: That is a matter of some dispute and discussion, but you'll see one. Let's not forget we've got a lot of time, and Newt Gingrich did not put his out until the September before the election, so I don't want to wait that long, but we think there's wide agreement among the leadership of the Democratic party that we do want a very plain, easy to understand layout of what we will do within the first hundred days when we take back Congress.

Bender: You've asked, going back to the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, that people sign a petition in time for the State of the Union. I believe that petition is at Democrats.org/honesty.

Dean: Oh, you're even better at this than I am! (Laughs) And while you're at it, buy a Democracy Bond at Democrats.org, while you're standing up for honest government.

Bender: So, you sign the petition, buy the bond, and then go out to lunch, because--

Dean: No, you sign the petition, you buy the bond, and then you go down and spend your lunch hour working for a great local Democratic candidate near you.

Bender: Well, that sounds like a plug for a movie: The Great Local Candidate near you. Ken Melhman, speaking of people who can go over the top, asked this rhetorical question last week, and it occurred to me I should ask you so that you can have a chance to answer it. Do you really think that when the NSA is listening in on terrorists planning attacks on America, that they need to hang up when those terrorists dial sleeper cells in the United States?

Dean: That of course is a ridiculous question. (Bender laughs, "You think?") In fact, if the president *wanted* to obey the law, he could have. The law says that you don't need a warrant in an emergency to listen in on a terrorist conversation. You can get that warrant afterwards. This president doesn't believe he has to go to the courts at all.

You know what's more scary? This is really frightening. Now the government is trying to find out what you look at on the internet. They asked Google, who fortunately refused, to provide a million names to them, and their internet habits. That means if you go to some web site that they think is dishonest, they'll know it. Or that they think is defense filled. Now, supposedly this is a child porn sting. Well, fine, go to the child porn people and find out who's looking at that, if that's what you want to look at. This basically lets them have access to whatever they want--it's the Patriot Act, looking at people's library habits, on steroids. And given the persecution of various church people by the IRS, and given the persecution by the FBI and the eavesdropping on people they disagree with, I think that's pretty dangerous to be able to look at whatever you want. Whatever you've looked at on Google they want that too in the government. This government has become a more and more Nixonian and Agnewonian, if I may.

Bender: Agnewonian?! (Bender and Dean laugh) May I quote you on that? I really love the word.

Dean: Well, it's sort of like subliminable.

Bender: Governor, you have an anniversary coming up. As of February 12, you will have been Chair of the DNC for one year. How do you like the job?

Dean: Well, it's a hard job, because as you know, we're fighting battles every day. But a lot's gone on in one year--you know, we've got 30 years of catching up to do with the Republicans. But we now have people in every state, from that state, paid for by the DNC, organizing everywhere. We've elected African American mayors in Mobile, Alabama, we've had four wins in a row in special elections in Mississippi. So, we're making real progress in states that Democrats had previously given up on. So, we're getting ourselves in shape, but it's a long process. I like to tell people "We've turned the wheel, and now we're waiting for the aircraft carrier to respond."

Bender: Well, you're not going to be landing on the *deck* of an aircraft carrier any time soon.

Dean: Uh, no. And mission is not accomplished.

Bender: Well, Governor Dean, thank you as always for joining us on Politically Direct, we're going to be looking forward to the Democratic "Contract for America"--

Dean: Well, we won't be calling it anything like that, either!

Bender: Well, let's have a contest to see what we can name it--

Dean: Maybe "American Values for America".

Bender: --and we'll do it right here on Air America. Thank you for joining us and we look forward to having you back to talk about that when it's released.

Dean: Thanks, David.

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