Howard Dean on Politically Direct (Part 1)

This is the transcript of the first part of Howard Dean's interview with David Bender on Politically Direct. I missed the first few seconds of it, but here's the interview from the point where I tuned in.

Dean: The people who brought us Medicare Part D are now going to try to do surgery on everybody else's healthcare system, and I don't think that's a very good thing. Thirty-six countries in the world *have* a system where everybody benefits and when the Democrats get back in, I'd like to put that up front and center.

Bender: Even Costa Rica, as I recall.

Dean: (Laughs) As I used to say during the campaign. But it's true, if they can have universal healthcare in Costa Rica, we ought to be able to have it in the United States.

Bender: One of the things that you said during the campaign that struck me, this last week. I was at Constitution Hall this last week to see Al Gore's speech. Did you see, or see coverage of the speech?

Dean: I saw coverage of it. You know, he's given four remarkable speeches over the last few years, and that was truly a remarkable speech.

Bender: Well, actually what you said was, "The best speeches given during the presidential campaign in 2004 were given by someone who wasn't running."

Dean: That's true. I think Al is a really deep thinker and a great writer.

Bender: And I guess my question is, why isn't what he is saying shaping the debate more than it is within the rest of the Democratic party? He seems to be our front but people haven't followed in the direction he's been leading.

Dean: Well, I think they are. I think the grassroots people *are* following. The problem is, as you know, Democrats in Washington are risk aversive, and they've got to get over that if we're going to win the presidency back and win the White House back. I, frankly, as you know, I don't agree with anything that Newt Gingrich believes, but I do believe that he's a great tactician and strategist, and what he did to take back the Congress was to differentiate the Republican party from the Democratic party. And before that, the Republicans who were in the minority were doing the same thing that we've been doing which is "Oh, let's *be* like the Democrats, and then maybe we'll win a few seats."

We have to clearly show that we're different. And we can't just say "Oh, the Republicans are corrupt, which is true, we've got to say what we would do differently and how we would lead in a positive way. Now, I think we're making some headway on that. But it's hard, and the progress is sporadic, but I think we're getting better.

Bender: I talked to Senator Obama on this program last week and we talked about the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act. And I asked him, because it puzzles me, both sides, both Democrats and Republicans are coming forward with reform legislation. But is seems like people's perception of this is that it's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Dean: That's not entirely true. It's true on the Republican side, but the Republicans just basically threw this together. I mean first of all, they don't have agreement between the Senate and the House. Second of all, they're not doing anything about the K Street project, which is where all the corruption came from in the first place. The idear that they would just run all the Democrats out of business and just allow people with a lot of money to give Republicans access, and that is really just blatant corruption.

Bender: But Governor, 82% of the American people, when the Abramoff scandal broke, the question was asked, "Is this unusual or is this the way government works?" And 82% came back and said "This is business as usual, no matter who's in power." How do you change that perception?

Dean: Well, I think they're actually telling the truth. I mean, part of the problem is that the RNC, the Republican National Committee is *much* better at propaganda than we are. And part of the problem, frankly, is the media is lazy as all get-out. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the media write that Democrats were involved in taking Abramoff money. That is simply a lie! Nor did he direct any money to any Democrats. But you wouldn't believe the mainstream newspapers that print that crap. It just is astonishing to me that the reporters won't get off their butts and look at the truth.

Bender: I watched you with Wolf Blitzer. I don't know if you ever saw the footage of it.

Dean: I never did.

Bender: He was remote. You told him, flat out, that he was wrong, and then there was a pause, for a long period of time on the television. He was frozen there, unable to respond.

Dean: Well he *is* wrong. This is a Republican finance scandal, David. And I know, everybody, "Oh a pox on everybody's houses!" No, Americans don't like politicians, but the truth is, in this case, this is a Republican scandal. Not one Democrat has been implicated in this--not one.

Bender: Well, I watched Tim Russert trying to do this again just a week ago. He said that it was 3 million dollars of Abramoff *related* money that went to Republicans, and 1.5 million that went to Democrats. How is he slicing that up, how is he making that contention?

Dean: Because Abramoff has some clients who independently gave money to people like Reid and Dorgan, because they're in their district. People give money to politicians for a variety of reasons. One, they're directed to for quid pro quo, which is what Abramoff has pleaded guilty to. That's corrupt. The other, is they support people who they like. Just like you and I would give a hundred dollars, or a thousand dollars if we can afford it, to a candidate that we like. So the Indian tribes that gave money to Reid and Dorgan, are giving it because they like what they do. It has nothing to do with Abramoff. As I said before, there's not *one* evidence--not any evidence whatsoever that Jack Abramoff directed a dime to any Democrat. We checked through every FEC report, he didn't give a *dime* to any Democrat. He gave thousands of dollars to Republicans. This is a Republican finance scandal, and the media is *lazy*.

Bender: Governor, hang on a second. We need to take a quick break, and we'll come right back.

Will try to post part 2 of the interview tomorrow.

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