Howard Dean on Hardball, 10/31

Matthews: Somebody in the Democratic party is putting out an attack sheet on this new Justice for the Supreme Court, Sam Alito, and the first attack is that he was lenient on the mob back in an '88 case. He let the Lucchesi family get off. It says he's an embarrassment to the government. And here's a guy who's been tough on crime--why start off on that issue?

Howard: Well, first of all, I didn't put it out, but somebody did, so let's all be responsible for it.

Matthews: It was put out by the Democrats.

Dean: The President put out a sheet this morning of Republican talking points. One of the things he said was that Judge Alito was a spectacular prosecutor. Well, it turns out he wasn't so spectacular and he lost some important cases. And one in which, in that particular case, those guys--20 of them--all got off, without even putting up a defense witness. So at least in that particular case that's an example--

Matthews: What about the Genovese case a year later where he won the conviction, put three big guys away, including the top guy in New Jersey--

Dean: I think it's great, all I'm trying to say is this guy isn't the best prosecutor since sliced bread. Look--

Matthews: You don't sense a little ethnic aspect to this, the fact that he's Italian-American and they nailed him, the number one issue against this guy, that he's weak on the mob. You don't see that, huh?

Dean: No, I'll tell you what the number one issue--

Matthews: I think everybody else does. I see it--

Dean: The number one issue I worry a lot about is, first of all, we have a very weak president, who is letting the right wing make judicial selections. Second of all, we have a president who didn't keep his word and fire Karl Rove as he promised he would. two years ago when he said he'd fire anybody who leaked. Well, the special prosecutor identified Official A who leaked, and that was Karl Rove. He may not be indicted, but what is going on is unethical. Third of all, I am concerned about Judge Alito's record. Judge Alito in one case said that Congress did not have the right to regulate the sale of machine guns. I think that's a mistake.

Matthews: I think they've done that since the 30s. Tommy guns have been outlawed since the mob days back in the early 30s.

Dean: In a case where he was on the court, he dissented from an opinion that upheld Congress' right to regulate machine guns. In other words, he made the case in his dissent that he did not believe that Congress had the right to regulate the sale of--

Matthews: --automatic weapons. Oh, I know. But I thought that was settled law.

Dean: It may have been settled law, Judge Alito disagreed. Judge Alito also supported the police when they went and searched somebody they had a search warrent for, but then also strip-searched the guy's wife and 10-year old daughter. I don't think that's a good thing. There were some sex discrimination cases and disability discrimination cases where he raised impossibly high standards. So, we do not think that Judge Alito is a great nominee...

Matthews: What about the husband notification--does that bother you?

Dean: It bothers me in the fact that Bush people seem to insist on inserting the government into people's private and family business, and this is a private family matter, not a government matter. To have the government insinuate itself in the relationship between a husband and wife I think is a mistake.

Matthews: But that was a Pennsylvania law, and that was passed by a Democratic governor, Bob Casey, it wasn't the Bush people--

Dean: This administration continually wants to insert themselves into family business--the Terri Schiavo case--that's the family's business, not the government's business. All these abortion cases, that's a family's personal business, not the government's business, and we'd like to keep the government out of people's private lives.

Matthews: So the Democratic party is a pro-choice party, period?

Dean: No, my party respects everybody's views, but my party firmly believes the government should stay out of people's personal lives.

Matthews: But you're a pro-choice party are you not? You sound like you're against them for being pro-life, are you pro-choice?

Dean: I'm not against people for being pro-life. I actually was the first chairman who met for a long time with the pro-life Democrats.

Matthews: The people believe the Republican party, because of its record, supports the pro-life position. Does your party support the pro-choice position?

Dean: The position we support is that a woman has a right, and a family has a right to make up their own mind about their health care without the government's interference.

Matthews: That's pro-choice.

Dean: A woman and a family have the right to make up their own minds about their health care without government interference. That's our position.

Matthews: Why do you hesitate from the phrase "pro-choice"?

Dean: Because I think it's often misused. If you're pro-choice, it implies you're not pro-life, and that's not true. There are a lot of pro-life Democrats. We respect them, but we believe the government--

Matthews: Do you believe in abortion rights?

Dean: I believe that the government should stay out of the personal lives of families and women. They should stay out of our lifes. That's what I believe.

Matthews: I find it interesting that you've hesitated to say what the party's always stood for, which is the pro-choice position--

Dean: The party believes that the government does not belong in our personal lives--

Matthews: It's just that I'm learning things here about a hesitancy I didn't know about before. We'll be right back with Howard Dean. Now you're getting hesitant on the war, hesitant on abortion rights--it's very hard to get clarity from your party.

What a freakin' tool, that Matthews. It's like he was rhetorically trying to pin Howard Dean's arm behind his back, insisting, "SAY IT! SAY THE WORDS! Buy into the black and white worldview so that I can have some good ammo for my interview with Ken Mehlman tomorrow!" Anyway, here's what came after the break...

Matthews: On this leak case, do you think Scooter Libby was a rogue, operating on his own?

Dean: You know, there's a big question about that, which I think is what did Vice President Cheney authorize Scooter Libby to do? In the indictment, the prosecutor talks about Vice President Cheney being the source of Libby's knowledge. In that case, did they discuss that Libby was going to leak this--

Matthews: Well, also, that he testified to the investigators that his boss, the vice president, told him how to deal with this information after giving it to him, on July 12--he gave the information June 12, a month later they go meet on a plane somewhere, and said here's how to deal with it. And then he started giving it out. Libby.

Dean: Well, I think that this may reach higher. This is not over--

Matthews: But don't you think it already has, in your mind? Don't you sense that--

Dean: Well, it's reached into the president's office. First of all, five years ago he promised this was going to be an ethical administration, which at this point is sort of a joke, given the vice president and Frist, and DeLay, and the procurement officer, and all these people involved in scandals of all sorts. But, I think that this is a serious problem, because the President of the United States looked the American people in the eye and said if anybody was leaking, they would be dealt with. They would be fired. Well, now we know. Karl Rove hasn't been indicted for leaking, but he did leak. And that's in the indictment, so it seems to me that the question of whether Karl Rove leaked something or not is not at issue any more. The president promised he'd fire a leaker--Karl Rove still has security clearance. This is a guy with security clearance, who's a leaker.

Matthews: Do you believe the Vice President constructed the case for war? The WMD case, the nuclear case--

Dean: Well, I don' t know who did, but somebody did, because the case wasn't there. The 9/11 Commission said it wasn't there. The 9/11 Commission, chaired by a Republican I might add, said there was no connection between terrorism and Saddam Hussein, there was no evidence for WMDs. Somebody either told the President the wrong information knowingly, or else the President knew the wrong information and lied to the American people.

Matthews: How come 80% of your party is opposed to the war in Iraq, believes we shouldn't have gone, and the leadership continues to stick with the war? John Kerry won't come out against the war, Chuck Shumer, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, they're all--

Dean: First, let me say this. I was very much against the war as you know, because I suspected--

Matthews: --you're with the 80%

Dean: I suspected we were not being told the truth, which it turns out we weren't. But I thought John Kerry's speech the other week was very good. We're there now. I was on one side, John Kerry was on the other, whatever--we're now in Iraq, and we've got to figure out how to get out. And Kerry has a plan to get out, which is more than--

Matthews then cuts him off and says he'd love to talk more about how to get out of Iraq, but they're out of time. Tomorrow, Ken Mehlman is scheduled to spew something on Hardball. Wonder if he'll be bringing up the "Merlot" thing again...

[UPDATE BY CORINNE: My fellow paesan Hunter has posted over at Kos that Chris Matthews lied about the Italian American slam in the memo. Go read the document Hunter has linked to and you'll see.]

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