Stopped by to visit; read the posts and shortly to bed.
listener--are those cell phone towers pointed the wrong way? Or (more likely) are they the wrong kind for your phone? Or maybe they are just too far away.
Found out how to download a YouTube video and save the audio only, so I can burn it to a CD. Figure I can put together a custom album.
My guess is that they're too far away. As I recall from my days doing PR to introduce the country's very first cell phone system, coverage is pretty short range.
It also occurs to me that if they're actually cell phone towers rather than TV relay towers, they may be designed specifically to relay calls from one local network to another rather than to interact with individual cell phones. Putting them on top of a mountain definitely suggests relay towers of some sort to my mind.
The reason I ask about the minister and dinner is that Dad has been going to this particular church, I think but am not certain that it is Southern Baptist, since the Summer. Specifically, the minister came to the door looking for Dad. He knew Dad is a veteran - not hard to work out since he has vets plates - and wanted him to come to a special Memorial Day service. At first Dad said he liked the minister/pastor but not the other congregants. Then he started seeming more comfortable. Then he started talking about giving them money and it came out that this church is one of those that requires tithing. Well, seems to me giving is a very good thing, but being *required* to do it, especially when you are a retiree, isn't particularly good. And then the minister started calling up to talk to Mom and Dad. It seems he himself is a former Lutheran and his wife is a former Catholic, so he gave Mom the impression that he felt pretty confident that he could, excuse the expression, sucker her in too. And then came this invitation for Mom and Dad to go to dinner with the minister and anothe couple. Maybe Sis and I are too cynical, but we find the whole t hing increasingly suspicious and disturbing. Mum is very upset by developments, especially the money angle. I m ean, ordinarily, Dad bitches and moans about not having enough money. Now all of a sudden he's talking about giving one tenth of his income to some church he's only been attending for a few months? Like I say, maybe we're paranoid, but we're very concerned.
What I know about the Quakers is very appealing indeed. If I'd been able to stay with Phil, it is likely that in time I'd have more or less become one in practice if not in name. As it is, I don't really practice anything. I'm interested in Catholicism intellectually, and I do identify myself as a Catholic, but it doesn't really touch my heart. Guess I'm still mad at God for taking Phil, whom I miss very much.
I'd be concerned too, Cat. Any time a church concentrates on what you can do for them, or on making money instead of what they have to offer you, I worry.
Whenever money becomes the focus I itch to remind them that Jesus didn't even have a permanent home that I know of, and that He walked or rode a donkey. Also, I believe there was a little something about throwing the money changers out of the temple.
*smile* Susan. Indeed. As I recall, Jesus had no use for hypocrites and those who made a great show of their devotions. And then there's that little matter of the lilies of the field.
I loved the Ethical Society for its activism, but over the long run, I missed a spiritual connection. So after 15 years, I resigned an went back to looking. I remember driving to my first meeting: I was actually sweating -- I was spending my mad money. And what if it *didn't* pan out? I'd have exactly nothing, and no ideas where to look, either. That meeting was what Friends call a "gathered" meeting. Hard to define, but deeply moving and profound. I discovered later that often the first meeting a new person attends IS gathered. Almost as if everyone is trying harder on their account, and it shows. . . .
The towers used to be TV towers only. Then they became cell towers. They used to belong to one carrier, but now (thanks to Vermont's legislature) they are required to share the towers with the other carriers to minimise the number needed and the impact on the state's mountaintops. Even if they are relay towers, they ought to relay the signal close enough to me. They're maybe 6-8 miles from me as the crow flies.
Yes, this is not okay, Cat. Although there are good people who sincerely believe in the idea of tithing (it isn't necessarily an act or a scam), it is wrong for them to expect everyone to do so. MOST churches who believe tithing is a good thing suggest that people work up to it slowly over a period of years, and they would not expect it of someone on a fixed income...! Furthermore, there are many differing views about what it means. Some say the whole tithe ought to go to the church, but others consider ALL forms of donation and giving as a part of one's tithe, including political donations, helping out a family member or a neighbour, etc.. So the church would be getting less than 10%. The SPIRIT of tithing is to give just a little more than you comfortably can give. It is not supposed to mean your children go hungry or your responsibility to pay your bills and take care of your family suffers! In fact, if people decide to give a full 10% to the church, that saps them of their ability to give in other ways and often makes giving "too easy" in the sense of making informed and careful choices about how to use your money. Just handing it over to others is not healthy. I doubt your father will do it for long if he does. Ask him to consider pledging to tithe for just 3 months at first rather than a whole year, then reassessing. Quite a few people who try it soon back away from it when Reality shows up. Hang in there.
I grew up in a church that required tithing to be in good standing. AND you tithed that 10% on *before* tax income. The only money I ever saw before I was quit at 21 that wasn't tithed was your income tax refund, because it had already been tithed. But *after* tithing, the church still had plenty of money requests: building funds, missionary support funds (last I checked, the church paid transportation to OR from the mission field for it's missionaries, the rest is paid by the family, or in the case of widows who can't, from the ward's missionary fund. . . . ).
My day began with scraping a stubborn layer of ice off my car windows. There was also a layer of freezing rain and the roads were iffy. I just made it to my doctor appointment a minute late. No problem. It was my annual GYN visit and went quite well. I'm healthier than I knew! My GYN doc kindly gave me a fly shot too. Then I went out and bought a new blouse. Then I went for my annual mammogram. Then my Main Squeeze and I went over to Granddaughter*in*VT's house and played with her for a few hours. Now we're home with our feet by the fire. I'm sure glad I got new snow tires recently!
Tomorrow begins a warming trend and it is said that on Wednesday the sun will be out and temps will be 50 degrees, and that the sun will be out every day through Sunday! Awesome!!
BTW, I have slowly come to a place of articulation about this:
I understand how it is that so many of us are impatient waiting for change. We had only negative change during the GWB years and are all a bit malnutritioned in the positive change area. But I tell you truly that I'm not surprised or over...ly worried that it hasn't happened yet in the Obama years, because he took office with so many huge problems waiting to be solved and they're problems that aren't fixed overnight. I'm tired of hearing people attempt to blame Obama for the problems!! He inherited them the same as we did, and he's a good person. I blame the Republicans for being so obstructionist, and for creating the big messes in the first place.
The only thing I "blame" President Obama for is believing that if he tries one more time, this time the Republicans will want to work on things in a bipartisan way.
BTW, I have slowly come to a place of articulation about this:
I understand how it is that so many of us are impatient waiting for change. We had only negative change during the GWB years and are all a bit malnutritioned in the positive change area. But I tell you truly that I'm not surprised or overly worried that it hasn't happened yet in the Obama years, because he took office with so many huge problems waiting to be solved and they're problems that aren't fixed overnight. I'm tired of hearing people attempt to blame Obama for the problems!! He inherited them the same as we did, and he's a good person. I blame the Republicans for being so obstructionist, and for creating the big messes in the first place.
The only thing I "blame" President Obama for is believing that if he tries one more time, this time the Republicans will want to work on things in a bipartisan way.
I do blame Obama. By his constant seeking of Republican approval after they continually voted "No" to everything he proposed he tacitly gave them permission to refuse to cooperate or compromise.
And it's not that change is slow, it's that he did foul stuff like secret backroom deals with hospitals, insurance companies and big pharma. He assured them there would be no Public Option and - surprise - there wasn't.
It's that he still has Gitmo open and that rendition and torture continues.
I have come to see him as weak and cowardly. I don't see any evidence that he fought for us at all. He was so intent on having the right wingers "like" him that he threw everybody else under the bus.
And now that the Democrats have been beaten he's taking about MORE compromise!! If he compromises any more he'll be to the right of George W.! He can't seem to see anything outside the Beltway Bubble. He doesn't realize Democrats were defeated because they sold us out at every opportunity.
But...you wanted God to help him heal and be well. There is nothing wrong with that desire. God sometimes comes across as an underachiever.
Barbara Brown Taylor, in her book God In Pain, says, "What if God's will for Jesus was long life and success, and his death on the cross wasn't 'the fulfillment of God's will' but the '[temporary] frustration of it?"
What if God's will for each of us is health, well-being, long life and success?
Jesus was killed because, as a perceived threat to local authority, he simply remained authentic. Most of us die for reasons of our biology and mortality. When we do not prosper, wouldn't that break God's heart? After all, if a mortal mother can hope good things for her child, how much more God's intention towards us?
All of that said, though...I know that ache is always going to be there for you. Because it is evidence of your love.
Howard is first.
ReplyDeleteMessages are on the last
thread.
:-)
Stopped by to visit; read the posts and shortly to bed.
ReplyDeletelistener--are those cell phone towers pointed the wrong way? Or (more likely) are they the wrong kind for your phone? Or maybe they are just too far away.
Found out how to download a YouTube video and save the audio only, so I can burn it to a CD. Figure I can put together a custom album.
TTFN
My guess is that they're too far away. As I recall from my days doing PR to introduce the country's very first cell phone system, coverage is pretty short range.
ReplyDeleteIt also occurs to me that if they're actually cell phone towers rather than TV relay towers, they may be designed specifically to relay calls from one local network to another rather than to interact with individual cell phones. Putting them on top of a mountain definitely suggests relay towers of some sort to my mind.
The reason I ask about the minister and dinner is that Dad has been going to this particular church, I think but am not certain that it is Southern Baptist, since the Summer. Specifically, the minister came to the door looking for Dad. He knew Dad is a veteran - not hard to work out since he has vets plates - and wanted him to come to a special Memorial Day service. At first Dad said he liked the minister/pastor but not the other congregants. Then he started seeming more comfortable. Then he started talking about giving them money and it came out that this church is one of those that requires tithing. Well, seems to me giving is a very good thing, but being *required* to do it, especially when you are a retiree, isn't particularly good. And then the minister started calling up to talk to Mom and Dad. It seems he himself is a former Lutheran and his wife is a former Catholic, so he gave Mom the impression that he felt pretty confident that he could, excuse the expression, sucker her in too. And then came this invitation for Mom and Dad to go to dinner with the minister and anothe couple. Maybe Sis and I are too cynical, but we find the whole t hing increasingly suspicious and disturbing. Mum is very upset by developments, especially the money angle. I m ean, ordinarily, Dad bitches and moans about not having enough money. Now all of a sudden he's talking about giving one tenth of his income to some church he's only been attending for a few months? Like I say, maybe we're paranoid, but we're very concerned.
ReplyDeleteWhat I know about the Quakers is very appealing indeed. If I'd been able to stay with Phil, it is likely that in time I'd have more or less become one in practice if not in name. As it is, I don't really practice anything. I'm interested in Catholicism intellectually, and I do identify myself as a Catholic, but it doesn't really touch my heart. Guess I'm still mad at God for taking Phil, whom I miss very much.
ReplyDeleteBright, windy, warm. No freeze on the horizon for the next week. May I say: "Yay!"?
ReplyDeleteI'd be concerned too, Cat. Any time a church concentrates on what you can do for them, or on making money instead of what they have to offer you, I worry.
ReplyDeleteWhenever money becomes the focus I itch to remind them that Jesus didn't even have a permanent home that I know of, and that He walked or rode a donkey. Also, I believe there was a little something about throwing the money changers out of the temple.
*smile* Susan. Indeed. As I recall, Jesus had no use for hypocrites and those who made a great show of their devotions. And then there's that little matter of the lilies of the field.
ReplyDelete~*~♥~*~
ReplyDeleteI loved the Ethical Society for its activism, but over the long run, I missed a spiritual connection. So after 15 years, I resigned an went back to looking. I remember driving to my first meeting: I was actually sweating -- I was spending my mad money. And what if it *didn't* pan out? I'd have exactly nothing, and no ideas where to look, either. That meeting was what Friends call a "gathered" meeting. Hard to define, but deeply moving and profound. I discovered later that often the first meeting a new person attends IS gathered. Almost as if everyone is trying harder on their account, and it shows. . . .
ReplyDeleteThe towers used to be TV towers only. Then they became cell towers. They used to belong to one carrier, but now (thanks to Vermont's legislature) they are required to share the towers with the other carriers to minimise the number needed and the impact on the state's mountaintops. Even if they are relay towers, they ought to relay the signal close enough to me. They're maybe 6-8 miles from me as the crow flies.
ReplyDeleteYes, this is not okay, Cat. Although there are good people who sincerely believe in the idea of tithing (it isn't necessarily an act or a scam), it is wrong for them to expect everyone to do so. MOST churches who believe tithing is a good thing suggest that people work up to it slowly over a period of years, and they would not expect it of someone on a fixed income...! Furthermore, there are many differing views about what it means. Some say the whole tithe ought to go to the church, but others consider ALL forms of donation and giving as a part of one's tithe, including political donations, helping out a family member or a neighbour, etc.. So the church would be getting less than 10%. The SPIRIT of tithing is to give just a little more than you comfortably can give. It is not supposed to mean your children go hungry or your responsibility to pay your bills and take care of your family suffers! In fact, if people decide to give a full 10% to the church, that saps them of their ability to give in other ways and often makes giving "too easy" in the sense of making informed and careful choices about how to use your money. Just handing it over to others is not healthy. I doubt your father will do it for long if he does. Ask him to consider pledging to tithe for just 3 months at first rather than a whole year, then reassessing. Quite a few people who try it soon back away from it when Reality shows up. Hang in there.
ReplyDeleteGod doesn't mind your anger, Cat. ♥
ReplyDeleteConsider, though, that God may not have "taken" Phil, only received him.
This is good to know!
ReplyDeleteI grew up in a church that required tithing to be in good standing. AND you tithed that 10% on *before* tax income. The only money I ever saw before I was quit at 21 that wasn't tithed was your income tax refund, because it had already been tithed. But *after* tithing, the church still had plenty of money requests: building funds, missionary support funds (last I checked, the church paid transportation to OR from the mission field for it's missionaries, the rest is paid by the family, or in the case of widows who can't, from the ward's missionary fund. . . . ).
ReplyDeleteMy day began with scraping a stubborn layer of ice off my car windows. There was also a layer of freezing rain and the roads were iffy. I just made it to my doctor appointment a minute late. No problem. It was my annual GYN visit and went quite well. I'm healthier than I knew! My GYN doc kindly gave me a fly shot too. Then I went out and bought a new blouse. Then I went for my annual mammogram. Then my Main Squeeze and I went over to Granddaughter*in*VT's house and played with her for a few hours. Now we're home with our feet by the fire. I'm sure glad I got new snow tires recently!
ReplyDeleteTomorrow begins a warming trend and it is said that on Wednesday the sun will be out and temps will be 50 degrees, and that the sun will be out every day through Sunday! Awesome!!
BTW, I have slowly come to a place of articulation about this:
ReplyDeleteI understand how it is that so many of us are impatient waiting for change. We had only negative change during the GWB years and are all a bit malnutritioned in the positive change area. But I tell you truly that I'm not surprised or over...ly worried that it hasn't happened yet in the Obama years, because he took office with so many huge problems waiting to be solved and they're problems that aren't fixed overnight. I'm tired of hearing people attempt to blame Obama for the problems!! He inherited them the same as we did, and he's a good person. I blame the Republicans for being so obstructionist, and for creating the big messes in the first place.
The only thing I "blame" President Obama for is believing that if he tries one more time, this time the Republicans will want to work on things in a bipartisan way.
BTW, I have slowly come to a place of articulation about this:
ReplyDeleteI understand how it is that so many of us are impatient waiting for change. We had only negative change during the GWB years and are all a bit malnutritioned in the positive change area. But I tell you truly that I'm not surprised or overly worried that it hasn't happened yet in the Obama years, because he took office with so many huge problems waiting to be solved and they're problems that aren't fixed overnight. I'm tired of hearing people attempt to blame Obama for the problems!! He inherited them the same as we did, and he's a good person. I blame the Republicans for being so obstructionist, and for creating the big messes in the first place.
The only thing I "blame" President Obama for is believing that if he tries one more time, this time the Republicans will want to work on things in a bipartisan way.
listener, your answer is thoughtful and well-considered as always. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI do blame Obama. By his constant seeking of Republican approval after they continually voted "No" to everything he proposed he tacitly gave them permission to refuse to cooperate or compromise.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's not that change is slow, it's that he did foul stuff like secret backroom deals with hospitals, insurance companies and big pharma. He assured them there would be no Public Option and - surprise - there wasn't.
It's that he still has Gitmo open and that rendition and torture continues.
I have come to see him as weak and cowardly. I don't see any evidence that he fought for us at all. He was so intent on having the right wingers "like" him that he threw everybody else under the bus.
And now that the Democrats have been beaten he's taking about MORE compromise!! If he compromises any more he'll be to the right of George W.! He can't seem to see anything outside the Beltway Bubble. He doesn't realize Democrats were defeated because they sold us out at every opportunity.
That's one way of looking at it. I've always recognized that as a legitimate was of looking at it. He was very tired by the end. But...
ReplyDeleteYou are most kindly welcome, Cat! ♥
ReplyDeleteBut...you wanted God to help him heal and be well.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with that desire.
God sometimes comes across as an underachiever.
Barbara Brown Taylor, in her book God In Pain, says, "What if God's will for Jesus was long life and success, and his death on the cross wasn't 'the fulfillment of God's will' but the '[temporary] frustration of it?"
What if God's will for each of us is health, well-being, long life and success?
Jesus was killed because, as a perceived threat to local authority, he simply remained authentic. Most of us die for reasons of our biology and mortality. When we do not prosper, wouldn't that break God's heart? After all, if a mortal mother can hope good things for her child, how much more God's intention towards us?
All of that said, though...I know that ache is always going to be there for you. Because it is evidence of your love.
Well, there is that. ;-)
ReplyDeleteSounds like time to lock the smokehouse door, in the words of Harry Truman.
ReplyDelete